What did you do today? Cobba's rebuild

[cobbadiggabuddyblooo]

Took a little off the preload on the front springs which was was staticly set at 25mm (good for track days so I'm glad I wrote down the settings) and set it at 32mm and out with the trusty cable tie to record measurements from the fork/dust seal to the top of the cable tie.
98-99 model R1 forks are 15mm longer than later R1 models (extra length is in the upper section and cartridge) and also have 135mm of travel.
I marked full travel with a whiteboard marker pen and after another 200km's of riding today consisting of traffic,hiway and a run up Mt Nebo over to Mt glorious and down the back again the back up and down the other side of Mt Glorious again .


As you can see when I measured it all up I had 3mm to play before the top out springs and again pushing it pretty hard with a number of bumps and while heavy braking.
I also chose to change the seat the day before as the rider seat fitted had an extra 25mm of padding to lower C.O.G. a touch and to get my legs ready for todays effort when I fitted the other rear tail section which lowers me again to a rider height of 750mm and thats with 15mm extra ride height already on the rear from std.
Riding on the balls of my feet was an effort stretching my legs and thighs with the 60mm up/40mm back rearsets.


Apart from getting used to stretching( that's my own fault for being slack ) I adapted more of my older riding style once again and sitting back in the saddle is a breeze with this lower rear tailpiece.
Front end gave me a little more feedback with a little less preload and a little less weight being forward with my body not up against the tank as much.
So did I gain anything by riding a little more upright with my previous set up to help with an aging back???
No
Sure it's a little easier on the thighs and legs but at the expense of a little more feedback from suspension and the bike travells better in it's present state and definately holding a little more corner speed into the corners.
Even close to full travell on the front I had no issues with the radiator hitting the front guard





It's feeling better by the day..

[cobbadiggabuddyblooo]

750mm is the length of the 98/01 model R1 forks from the top to the centre of the axle.
But remember on the TRX 18mm is fork length is set through the clip ons and they themselves are ressessed a little into the top yoke.
So I've placed a 10mm step down on the top tree and the added 20mm fork length through the yoke and clip on the std TRX forks/yoke gets me to the same distance with the 98/01 R1 forks sitting level on the billett trees.
With the 750mm r1 forks +
10mm step yoke +
20mm length through the top yoke =

780mm being the same length as std TRX forks

The 15mm of extra travel on the R1 forks (std trx 120mm, 98/01 R1 135mm) also deals with the running a 70 series front tyre which is absorbed in the sag figure.
14mm of the R1 forks through the top tree and 5mm shorter dogbones gives me a rake about 24*

Why they added the extra travel on the 98/99 R1's was there inherrant habit of lifting the front wheel in their early design, so with this little bit more length on the sag figure it gave you a little more front wheel traction before the front wheel became airborne out of the corners.
The R1 castor/frame angle on the head stock is 24*(TRX 25*) ,be aware of the different offsets on the trees from 35mm 98/01
from 02-03 which had 25mm offset being the same as the trx trees.
2004 onwards 30mm offset 15mm shorter fork length with only 120mm travell, 43mm forks and radial brakes.
Offset being a parrallell measurement from the centre of the stem to the to the centre of the fork tubes not to be confused with the castor angle in degrees.

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/modelhis ... -Page1.htm

a wealth of R1 chassis/suspension info.

[cobbadiggabuddyblooo]

Todays 200km ride was again up over Mt Glorious and down the other side and then turn around and do it the other way.
But I placed an extra 2lb in each tyre.
Originally I was running 30lb front - 35lb rear and today I ran 32lb front - 37lb rear.
I needed to dial in more compression to get a similar feel but it wasn't quite the same amount of grip that's for sure especially on the rear and a little more graining upon the tyres.
Resonant frequencies came into play too with a definate buzzing through the bars that started to appear that wasn't there before too..

Tyres are Michelin pilot powers..120/70 - 180/60 a really good stable all rounder..

With around 20kg less weight than std and taller walled 70series front tyre, I think I may go back to 30 front and 35 rear as you can feel the tyre giving a more responsive feedback through the wall and remember not all tyres have the same profile or same wall / carcass construction so what may suit 1 tyre may not suit another.

[Trixed]

Hi Cobba
Agree with the pilot powers. Installed Pilot powers 3 s on Monday and the difference in handling from the metzeler interact m5 was immediate and like chalk and cheese. As u may have noticed me complaining about the feel being lost on the bike, suspecting the swing arm alignment, 80 per cent was that the tyre choice of the interacts and the trx was not the best. I have pilot power3 on both bikes and can strongly recommend this for the trx. Result: I have the feel back on the bike and R6 (2004) front end is definitely more pronounced in the overall dynamics of the front end. This is possibly the best move so far in the dynamics of my bike. The P3s are v shaped and give great feedback during corners and brilliant stability getting out of them. The compound feels supple and grippy. The tyre shop recommended 36 front and 40 rear pressure. Saying these michelins needed higher pressure to be at their best? Seems bit excessive to me as Michelin recommends the motorcycle manufacturers pressure. The P3s Feel better than Pilot Road3 as well. A great move if any of u are having issues with handling and feel of the bike.

[fung]

And I've gone back to 33/36 on miss blackie with sportsmart II 120/70 and roadsmart II 160/60 with less rebound on the rear and a little more on the front.

[cobbadiggabuddyblooo]

After a couple of weeks and 2500km clocked up, I wasn't quite happy with the set up and new there was more but I was chasing my tail.
My own stupid fault really as I broke a golden rule and changed too many things at once.
So back to the std TRX riders seat (not the repadded std riders seat I have or the other tail/seat section)
Then back to std footpegs (not the rearsets) and within a few KM's I find the result I was looking for.
I took a few measurements and after shuffling through notes, I realise I had acheived exactly what I wanted to start when I first sat down and thought about how I would approach the frame/suspension about 2yrs previous.
Measurements get the clip ons 20mm further forward and 30mm lower than std.
Rake on the front being 23.5* compared to 25* std. with forks 14mm through the trees and 5mm shorter dogbone to just lift the rear 15mm higher.


Once on level ground and I have a 0 point of reference, I took athe angle of the front forks via another gadjet in Rod's bag of tricks on the shelf.



Riding position and ergonomics was screwing around with what I originally set out to do with the modifications to frame and suspension, so now it's a matter of finding the peg clearance I need that's comfortable enough on my long legs without changing the nature of the bike as is..
Now I have the stability and manoverablity I was chasing in through the flip flops and through the mountain ranges plus the solid stable feeling through fast sweepers.
Before I started this rebuild around 15mths ago I had the same set up on std 41mm emulator forks (14mm) and dogbones (-5mm) R6 shock and was quite happy with the handling characteristics of the bike.
Now I've gained a much better feel just with suspension upgrades and the effortless nature with the lighter wheels.

As a comparrision
I tried running 10mm shorter (yzf750) dogbones a couple of years ago with the forks at std height and found it steered effortlessly but lost out in the fast sweepers with the bike moving around and starting to get a little unsettled once over 140kph and though the R6 shock felt a little firmer something was missing and didn't quite work right.
For those choosing to play with the handling, I would advocate trying the 177mm c to c dogbones and 14mm extra forks through the trees, run a 70 series tyre on the front for a really good compimise, giving improvements without sacrificing too much in stability.
I was really impressed too with Rod's TRX set up now with new tyres and his clip ons upside down and on the opposite fork giving a slightly more upright riding position on the std TRX850 set up.

It has me curious now what characteristics change for those who have gone with an R6/R1 tail conversion apart from estetics.
With a couple more thousand k's planned on these Michelin Pilot powers in the next few months, it will be time to look at tyre choice as a Xmas present and how that will effect things...
It will be nice having new rubber with a new motor inplace too...

That's a story in itself as today I popped in to see my mechanic and after finishing off the head .
Next mission is to pull the springs off the valves once again and fit lighter springs to check all clearances using a dial gauge and he will get back to me with a figure on the thickness of copper head gasket that will give me the optimum squish and clearance with the valves, as he said just incase I hit a netural and it gets a big rev all shall be good ..
So this will give me a little more time to play with the couple of gearboxes I have on the way....

[cobbadiggabuddyblooo]

Out and about with a few mates today & headed up Mt Nebo and Mt Glorious once again. It was nice to get in amoungst it with a couple of Kwakas,Triumph,CBR and honda v thingy and enjoyed the hard riding wr450 which was in it's element up the mountain. Till I went past him...
then Down the other side , stopped for a chin wag on the cattle on the road then back up again.
So time for a coffee stop , then down the mountain but this time to Samford, and Clear Mt via the postmans track and finally home again.
Time to think on m set set of tyres with 3000km's + clocked up on these Pilot Powers. I could really feel the tyres becoming the weak link now all the suspension is pretty well dialed in.
So time for a little research on whats out there .

Sitting down and having a latte at the cafe on top of MT Glorious, in amoungst the 30 odd bikes there this morning, the conversation got on to helmets.
A number of the guys I was riding with today are ambo's and they where discussing the change to an open face helmet.
The reason being the number of bike accidents they deal with at work and the amount of riders suffering from damage to the vertabea C4 in the neck.
It was from the impact on the front of the helmet and transmitting the impact through the helmet and onto the neck.
So the trade off was damage to the face and jaw or not being able to walk or limited movement from the damage to the spine...
Interesting subject I thought..


.

[devlin]

Yeah, that's an interesting conversation. Something to think about.

What tires are you thinking of so far?

[Trixed]

Yeah, that's an interesting conversation. Something to think about.

What tires are you thinking of so far?

Michelin power3s

[Con Rod]

I have power 3s and have to say I am hugely impressed with them, surprised you reckon they are the weak link. Pressure wise I am running 34F 36R

[cobbadiggabuddyblooo]

Rod just had the power 3's fitted and so did Udaysen and they have nothing but praise for them.
I've favoured Michelin for a number of years and I'm running pilot powers and I usually find after 3,000km's they just start to loose there edge but still perform. Come 5,000km they start to slide a little more and the way I'm clocking up K's, another 2000 km will come around fast. I will usually get an easy 7-8000km from a pair of pilot powers but thats running them down and after 5,000km I need to be a little more conservative.
I know I'm pushing them a little harder now and always get good feedback from the michelins. With good suspension I'm trailing a lot more front brake into the corners.
The dunlops I ran stuck like $%it to a blanket but the couple of times the back let go it was there and then it wasn't so no real feedback on it's intentions. Pirelli, Dunlop and Michelin all have different ways of contructing the tyres so a little more investigating is on the cards. But again it will come down to a compramise as I'm doing more miles on the road of late..
My guts telling me Michelins and you know what happens when you dont listen to that...

[Con Rod]

interesting,

I only have about 3000km on mine so to my experience is somewhat rose tinted. With spring upon us I will hopefully get a lot more riding in so will see how it goes.

As ever, great thread Cobba, keep up the good work

[cobbadiggabuddyblooo]

Thanks Paul,
The pilot powers I have are date stamped nearly 3yrs ago and they are the original series first bought out when Jesus was playing full back for Jerhusleum
Single compound before the ct2's but a good cheap all rounder I found especially if you purchase 3 pair from the US.
You can still find them locally on the shelf too for around $330 a pair but they must be looking at phasing them out soon.
I'll be looking at feedback from you guys running the pilot 3's.

[fung]

Hi cob
I just put my '00 R6 on Sportsmart II .
120/70 f and 180/55 r.
32psi front 30psi rear for the road.
initial is good tho the rear has some more scrubbing in to do once I swap in front braided lines and new pads .
lve them on miss blackie, going to try running them at 32/30 as well.
report back after

[cobbadiggabuddyblooo]

Cheers Fung,
I know the carcass wall on the dunlops are of a stiffer nature due to the belt windings and configuration. You can run lower tyre pressures to get the tyre to distort and have a bigger footprint.
Trackday pressures as low as 17lb in the rear. they are one of the heaviest front tyres so rotating mass adds up to 1kg more and not quite the same feedback because of the thickness.
Entering 1 of your bikes this weekend Fung ??
Make the tribe down your way aware of the bike show mate, Getting good numbers so should e a good day,weather permitting. Close to 30 entrants now and more expected within the next couple of days..