Any easy way to fit hard panniers? (Again!)

[Rod.s]

Good point Rod - ideal world would be ride up the by road and back on the train

Next time you're that way, do just that and make us jealous with envy! Last time i was over there (Europe) i clocked up 11000k's through France and Switzerland just a magical place to be

[dandywarhol]

If you like the TRX engine, then apart from the rear disc ( which is pretty maintenance free) then why not a late TDM850? It ticks nearly all your boxes. A rear disc is preferable on Alpine descents anyway with better cooling.
The rear shock doesn't have linkages, although I've heard of a few with seized bottom shock bolt through bad maintenance (which you wouldn't buy anyway)
I've had 3 TDMs and they've all covered big Euro tours, the last one being over 5000 miles with little or no problems.

[Snod Blatter]

Had to look it up, but 50 MPG equals 21 km/l, that is not bad at all. It just that 55 MPG is really good!
And with the prices of that CB500s and the Ducati, seriously, you can not complain.. at all!
You 're spoiled.

But a small car can do that, while lugging around the weight of a small car! I'm more used to trundling around on a CB250 (Nighthawk) and getting 80MPG, even 55 does my head in.. Anyway, welcome to the UK in winter where bikes are cheap because the roads might be covered in a mixture of grit and salt which chips away paint and then eats into the metal.. And silly things like rear calipers stop working properly.

The TDM is interesting but it still has tiny wheels, though it is better than most things. Weirdly they don't ever seem to come up with luggage attached, which may indicate such an animal is so good that no one wants to sell? My personal preference would actually be to go for the early 360 one for the sheer chugability, would that be a mistake? Since they don't rev either are they any better on fuel? Certainly the crank seems to have an easier life..

[Tarwetijger]

The TDM is interesting but it still has tiny wheels, though it is better than most things. Weirdly they don't ever seem to come up with luggage attached, which may indicate such an animal is so good that no one wants to sell? My personal preference would actually be to go for the early 360 one for the sheer chugability, would that be a mistake? Since they don't rev either are they any better on fuel? Certainly the crank seems to have an easier life..

If I remember well, the early TDMs, 3VD, are known for their high fuel consumption...

[Snod Blatter]

Seems you are right a quick look at Spritmonitor shows more 3VDs on the thirstier end of the scale.. Bugger! I have also read that the forks, while cartridge, are also quite inept - can they be revalved?

[Tarwetijger]

Seems you are right a quick look at Spritmonitor shows more 3VDs on the thirstier end of the scale.. Bugger! I have also read that the forks, while cartridge, are also quite inept - can they be revalved?

Sure they can, or fit stiffer springs like Hyperpro.
But when are you leaving for the trip? Because you seem to be in a hurry.

[Snod Blatter]

Only May, but I'd like to have something I know quite well and have been over mechanically a few times by then! I actually took the TRX to Germany in 2012 when I'd only owned it a month and hadn't really checked it out, I hadn't checked the valve clearances or even changed the oil! It was quite a harrowing/tense experience that I don't want to repeat, though it was fine aside from nearly running the motor out of oil in Belgium. The hunt is very much on! Though it will mean the sale of the TRX, there's nowhere for it to go in the garage otherwise and having watched it melt away outside for a couple of months I'm not doing that again. And that was being used every day..

[Tarwetijger]

TRX has to go In that case, I don't understand why you will not go with the TRX...
It is a japanese spec with Brembo calipers, right?

[dandywarhol]

Here's my tuppence worth on the TDM again...............

I've ridden both the 360 and 270 and my preference is the 270 crank. Strangely, the 360 needs to be revved harder to get there (cause of higher consumption?)

The 850s have 110/80/18 front & 150/70/17 rears - what size of potholes do you plan on entering Snod

The 360 has a big jump between 1st and second gear and IMO takes a bit of getting used to - that's why journos really slag the 'box off - they're right in a way, it doesn't need such a low 1st.
The best gearbox of the 850s is the post 1999 (one with the fuel gauge) I'd a TDM with a TRX motor in it and even with lower overall gearing, 1st was a bit high for toodling around on tour. It was however a blast going from hairpin bend to hairpin bend just staying in 1st - it would reach 60mph in 1st

The 900 is different all together - good 6 speed 'box and economical - I rarely got below 55 mpg with a best of 63. The 850 got around 4 mpg less.

The TDM850 still can drink oil - I have my own theory on both TRX and TDM which is, if they are mollycoddled from new, the bores glaze and they burn oil My 1st TDM I bought new and didn't hang about in the first 1000 miles - it used little oil. The TRX engined one used oil The 900 used virtually none but it has ceramic bores. The Mk1 has a dipstick - the mk2 the stupid TRX type sightglass - probably the cause of most crank failures

Properly set up, the first 360 deg. MK 1 with cartridge forks was better than the Mk2 with damper rods. I fitted Race Tech emulator valves to both my mk 2s - big difference The seat is ok too.

At the end of the day, it really depends what you want to use it for. A properly set up TDM will do all its asked plus. Wide panniers are a pain in traffic and may cause buffetting at speed. The ideal ones seem to be narrow, Givi 30l are good you just need to pack for a week and find a laundrette

For our Greece and back the long way by Bulgaria and Romania we packed light. Pete had 30l Givi on his Mk1, I had a topbox and rollbag. Here's a wee vid (ignore the Geordie bit at the start - a piss take of a friend ) The Mk1 had a leaky fork seal and warped front disk (used the gears a lot!) and a blown Motad downpipe I was on my 900. In 5000+ miles we used about 200 miles of motorway, the rest was A road, off road you'll see a few potholes in the clip

There are better bikes than a TDM but are they as competent/reliable overall???

[Snod Blatter]

TRX has to go In that case, I don't understand why you will not go with the TRX...
It is a japanese spec with Brembo calipers, right?

It is, and it's a nice bike. Well sorted now too, and familiar.. But it's a camping trip and I need somewhere to put a week's worth of clothes (there will be a launderette somewhere!), a sleeping bag, a mattressy thing, a towel and whatnot.. Maybe even help out carrying some of the tent stuff, the other guy has a massive R1100GS but even so he only has so much space. The TRX might be capable if it had big panniers on it but it's still not ideal, even with some soft panniers slung over the passenger seat the front became surprisingly light.

dandy - I had no idea the front on a TDM was 18", that brings them up in my estimations very far! I've tried several bikes with 17s on (CBF125, DR650 supermoto, SV650S, TRX) and disliked the choice on all of them. They feel insecure and are upset by the smallest of road imperfections, rubbish. Rears don't matter nearly as much of course, but I still like 18" because the tyres are a bit cheaper!

The 360 v 270 thing is the opposite of everything I have read, people are usually amazed by the gruntiness of the 360 version? Less than a year ago I was talking to a chap who used to have one and he said he hated it around town because it was too much, it always wanted to go no matter how smooth and careful he tried to be. I wonder if it's the old emulsion tube problem coming to hit them hard in the lower revs where the power should be?

The TDM is a nice all rounder, just like the TRX I suppose but with better comfort. I'm finding it very hard to beat 80BHP and 55MPG, perhaps the best way to move is sideways.. Shame I can't find any for small money though. Much food for thought! Oh, and where's this video then?

[dandywarhol]

Ah, the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP3kayTOGdc - there's some more of the trip on you Tube - Dastardly Duo series

I think the lowest mpg (fading memory) I got with wide panniers and laden was 49, low/mid 50s was the norm for the 850

[Snod Blatter]

By 'eck that looks rough.. Be fine on a CB250 though. Maybe next year

It's a shame in a way that the competition make Yamaha look so sharp. The Ducati ST2 I linked to earlier is a normal example of this - an extra 100cc to scare the insurance people, and even with fuel injection and desmo valves it manages almost exactly the same performance figures while doing ~45MPG and being 20kg heavier, though some of that is down to the panniers. Even NTV600/650s and CB500s only do ~50MPG and put out around 55BHP while weighing only a bit less. It's crazy!

[Rich]

XT 600 home made alloy panniers top box and rack.

Harris Magnum Oxford sport panniers, old tank bag

Both bikes carrying tent, ground mat, clothes,sleeping bag cooking gear,food, beer etc

Throw-overs - actually carry as much as the alloy panniers (I only wanted them as wide as the bars for when I am filtering) That is a small 2+ man tent strapped between them, but for the three man tent I just take the poles out of the tent and use them through the carrying handles to strap to. Good if you come off as they can be bodged up easier.

Alloy Panniers more secure to leave stuff in. Drier when it really rains but if you are going for the occasional trip / rally etc, I would look at soft luggage and a couple of bin bags just in case.

[Tarwetijger]

That's an interesting bike, too bad it a 4-cil.
But the same works with a TRX of course:



Magnetic tank bag (don't put your wallet there ), Renntech rack with roll, soft side bags. This time I could still use the space under the duocover. Otherwise you can put there a second roll.
It's unbelievable how much you can cary with a bike!

[Snod Blatter]

This is interesting. Perhaps my undoing is that I have a top box on the rear seat, and always imagined it would be there but in reality a dry bag would have much more capacity. Tarwetijger, where did you keep all the oil?

I have tried some Oxford soft panniers and didn't think much to them but then I have never thought much to Oxford gear. Perhaps some proper soft panniers.. The bloke I'm going with has already had enough of my indecisiveness, this isn't helping! I was kind of hoping to use the opportunity to downsize though, something lighter and shorter.. But that idea is constantly being derailed.